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[quote="jebba"][quote="Saint of Killers"]I never did comprehend how so much non-free stuff appeared to be in the kernel. I was of the understanding that such stuff was not allowed near the kernel in the 1st place. If stuff needs to be added, and people choose to do so, fine, but why the kernel? It should be able to be loaded into user-space, or other areas surely?[/quote] I didn't realize it for a long time either (like a decade). dmwm2 is actually working on trying to get the firmware out of the kernel and use a firmwareloader() mechanism that all firmware passing thru the kernel would use. This would make it easier to do a free kernel (well, despite what lxoliva says!), but the rationale is that *it would make it easier for companies to distribute firmware*. So basically it (might) make building a free kernel/distro easier, but it is also a means to encourage more firmware! doh. Hans de Goede is trying to argue that firmware is hardware on fedora-devel. heh. -Jeff[/quote]
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<table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" width="100%" class="forumline"> <tr> <th class="thCornerL" width="22%" height="26">Author</th> <th class="thCornerR">Message</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>patrickm</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:44 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>john maclean wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Depends on what you want to do or achieve. <br /> <br />CentOS <br /> - Based on Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) <br /> - Long term support <br /> - Very stable <br /> - Very conservative <br /> <br />Fedora <br /> - Testing ground for RHEL <br /> - Active/rapid development cycle. I.e Cutting edge</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />If you want to use CentOS because of the long term support and stability, you could consider using <a href="http://scientificlinux.org/" target="_blank" class="postlink">Scientific Linux</a>. SL is created from the same sources as CentOS but a little less strict on being 100% binary identical to RHEL. The people who created it (working with Fermilab and CERN) are surprisingly friendly ;-)</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>sagitter</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:28 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Quote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Wow. There's a huge thread in fedora-devel started by Alexandre Oliva about linux-libre and such. I've written a few messages in there. I usually try to stay out of that crap, but I fell in this time. <br /> <br />Fedora's website says shit like: <br /> <br />knowing liars wrote: <br />We try to always do the right thing, and provide only free and open source software. <br /> <br /> <br />when they *KNOW* they distribute plenty of non-free software and even have a special interest group dedicated to it! <br /> <br />Anyway, I also learned that their "logic" for distributing firmware is they say it's "content" not "software". Ya, it's just code put through a compiler spit out into a binary and distributed--clearly "not software". <br /> <br />Massive flamewar begins here: <br />...l <br /> <br />-Jeff</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Hello to everyone. <br />This is the reason because i've just decided to move my attention to Blag Linux (other than Fedora). <br />I love free software but today the Linux Kernel without no-open-firmware use is complicated.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>col54red</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 6:05 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>john maclean wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Depends on what you want to do or achieve. <br /> <br />CentOS <br /> - Based on Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) <br /> - Long term support <br /> - Very stable <br /> - Very conservative <br /> <br />Fedora <br /> - Testing ground for RHEL <br /> - Active/rapid development cycle. I.e Cutting edge</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />thanks for your explanation john.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>john maclean</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:05 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Depends on what you want to do or achieve. <br /> <br />CentOS <br /> - Based on Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) <br /> - Long term support <br /> - Very stable <br /> - Very conservative <br /> <br />Fedora <br /> - Testing ground for RHEL <br /> - Active/rapid development cycle. I.e Cutting edge</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>caramel1982</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 5:39 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">which is better? fedora or centOS?</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>noldrin</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:43 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">actually the term I was looking for was confirmation bias</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>uninverted</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:54 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>noldrin wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">I forgot the exact word to describe it, but when you have put a lot of stock in one view point and someone shows the obvious fallacy in it, people will do all sorts of absurd rationalizations in order to try and argue an emotional viewpoint.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Religion?</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>noldrin</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:04 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">I forgot the exact word to describe it, but when you have put a lot of stock in one view point and someone shows the obvious fallacy in it, people will do all sorts of absurd rationalizations in order to try and argue an emotional viewpoint.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Saint of Killers</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:31 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">"Firmware is hardware"? What kind of retards does he think everyone else is? It's nothing of the kind. It may be a different layer, but it still exists as software. <br /> <br /> I've never claimed to be the smartest person on the planet, but some of the arguements I was reading from your link just make me wonder as to the actual intelligence of the folk working on this stuff. They're either willfully ignorant, or dumb as bat-shit when it comes to this stuff. I had to keep checking I wasn't on some satire site. Madness.</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>noldrin</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:20 pm<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">People like to ignore problems. But if you shine enough light on them, then often times they will fix them</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>jebba</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:07 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>Saint of Killers wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">I never did comprehend how so much non-free stuff appeared to be in the kernel. I was of the understanding that such stuff was not allowed near the kernel in the 1st place. If stuff needs to be added, and people choose to do so, fine, but why the kernel? It should be able to be loaded into user-space, or other areas surely?</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />I didn't realize it for a long time either (like a decade). <br /> <br />dmwm2 is actually working on trying to get the firmware out of the kernel and use a firmwareloader() mechanism that all firmware passing thru the kernel would use. This would make it easier to do a free kernel (well, despite what lxoliva says!), but the rationale is that *it would make it easier for companies to distribute firmware*. So basically it (might) make building a free kernel/distro easier, but it is also a means to encourage more firmware! doh. <br /> <br />Hans de Goede is trying to argue that firmware is hardware on fedora-devel. heh. <br /> <br />-Jeff</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>Saint of Killers</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:55 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">I never did comprehend how so much non-free stuff appeared to be in the kernel. I was of the understanding that such stuff was not allowed near the kernel in the 1st place. If stuff needs to be added, and people choose to do so, fine, but why the kernel? It should be able to be loaded into user-space, or other areas surely?</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>jebba</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="100%"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Post" title="Post" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:07 am<span class="gen"> </span> Post subject: Fedora</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Wow. There's a huge thread in fedora-devel started by Alexandre Oliva about linux-libre and such. I've written a few messages in there. I usually try to stay out of that crap, but I fell in this time. <br /> <br />Fedora's website says shit like: <br /> <br /></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>knowing liars wrote:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">We try to always do the right thing, and provide only free and open source software.</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />when they *KNOW* they distribute plenty of non-free software and even have a special interest group dedicated to it! <br /> <br />Anyway, I also learned that their "logic" for distributing firmware is they say it's "content" not "software". Ya, it's just code put through a compiler spit out into a binary and distributed--clearly "not software". <br /> <br />Massive flamewar begins here: <br /> <br /><a href="http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-June/msg00411.html" target="_blank">http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-June/msg00411.html</a> <br /> <br />-Jeff</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/BLAGlight/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> </table>
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