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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:07 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:38 pm
Posts: 373
Location: Athol, Massachusetts, USA
jebba wrote:
quine wrote:
“yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation” yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation.


-Jeff


You've caught me up as a bit of a poseur. I've read that statement more than ten times and I still can't "wrap my head around it".

I've never met nor even read Quine, though I've heard of him. I got the thing about self referencing sentences from a popular philosophical work by a logician whose name I can't remember and my library is in such a mess that I'm not even going try to find it. The example he used was quite a bit easier than Quine's:

"This statement is false"

Is that statement true or false?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:57 pm 
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Caraibes wrote:
I don't see that whole matter as inconsistence, but as lack of explanation. And it is important for the FSF to clarify its move as a bunch of human beings are closely following their acts & guidelines.


When I first heard about rms, I was impressed with him and wrote him an email. The first part of the email was:
ewl to rms wrote:
I have great respect for your stance on free software and personally I
try to comply with it. I have been a user of GNU/linux for about two
years now. My favorite distribution is slackware, which I know you
list as containing unfree components. Instead of switching to ututo,
which is totally free, is it possible to just uninstall the unfree
components from slackware in order to remain 'free software
compliant'?

to which he replied:
rms wrote:
Yes it is. If it is just a matter of avoiding non-free software
yourself, that will do the job.

The second part of the email:
ewl to rms wrote:
As a matter of fact, why couldn't somebody go through all the major
distributions and create free distributions of them, distributing them
as "free Debian" or "free slackware" ?

to which he responded:
rms wrote:
It would be a lot of work, and it would not really do the job very
well. If you suggest people use "free slackware", most of them will
forget the "free" part and go use slackware, and many of them might
use the non-free programs.

So one needs to make a different name, as well as changes.

This is more or less what we are already doing--but there is no need
to do it for *every* distro.


That really clarified, for me, what their position was. If I were motivated to go through my distro, investigate the licenses of all the packages and uninstall the non-free ones, then that would be consistent with the fsf effort to avoid the use of non-free software. But it's a hell of a lot easier for me to use Blag or gNewSense where the developers do all the work for me.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:38 pm
Posts: 154
Location: Chicago
Well, that clears things up.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:32 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:58 pm
Posts: 187
Location: Dominican Republic
Healthy discussion, I am learning things... I was never an expert on the subject, but your respective posts are very informative.

At the end of the day, I'll listen to the FSF, whether or not I like it, because it is the voice that speak against the propaganda form the mutinationals...

I might not be very pure in my followings, but I still listen to those guys...


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:58 pm
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Location: Dominican Republic
I was just reading this :

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/475824

written by Linus, and I must admit that the guy makes sense !

Quote:
Was the point to alienate people by showing how we're less about the
technology than about licenses?


Quote:
The silly thing is, the people who tend to push most for this are the
exact SAME people who say that the RIAA etc should not be able to tell
people what to do with the music copyrights that they own, and that the
DMCA is bad because it puts technical limits over the rights expressly
granted by copyright law.

Doesn't anybody else see that as being hypocritical?

So it's ok when we do it, but bad when other people do it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:26 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:22 am
Posts: 122
Caraibes wrote:


We need shirts that say "I'm with Linus."

I totally agree with him, and he does have a right to be upset because they are using his brainchild as a weapon of conform. The point of GNU/Linux was freedom, not another set of rules and regulations.

tl;dr version:

Don't treat the GPL like Born-Again Baptists treat the Bible.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:40 pm 
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Location: Athol, Massachusetts, USA
I agree and disagree with you. I'm not a purist, or I'm not a very good purist. But if it weren't for Richard Stallman's push for free software we'd all be using proprietary systems, like Windows or MacOS. If it weren't for the GPL Linux, if it ever got started, and I doubt Linus would have bothered writing a kernel if all the other tools for making a system weren't already there, it would probably have ended up being part of some proprietary project like solaris or sco unix . If gnu/linux starts relying on proprietary components then it's future will be decided by those components and not by the desires of the users and developers. RMS is a hardass about licenses, but I think that's a good thing. It allows the rest of us to slide a little if we want too. ;)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:13 pm 
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Location: Dominican Republic
ewl wrote:
RMS is a hardass about licenses, but I think that's a good thing. It allows the rest of us to slide a little if we want too. ;)


I absolutely agree with the above statement, and believe it sums it all...


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