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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:42 pm 
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Hello people, I don't use blag, but I'm a fan of it.

I thought some of you may be interested/amused to see a little battle I've been having with some supposed 'anarchists' over at afed.org.uk. I figured they might like the idea of using free Linux, it seems I was wrong!:

http://libcom.org/forums/south-east-and ... ux-and-why

I hope you don't think I'm trespassing/over stepping my welcome here or anything, its just that I'm aware of the political aims behind blag (not very dissimilar to my own) and as I said, hoped that you might find reading the linked messages amusing!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:56 pm 
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Wow. What a terrible forum over there. It's basically overrun by trolls so it looks utterly pointless to me. Save your time. "When one is arguing with a fool it's hard to tell which is the fool"...

I don't think that is representative of Anarchist attitudes towards linux. "In general" anarchists seem to be at least a bit sympathetic (or outright enthusiastic) about linux, though point out its obvious shortcomings (e.g. running "capitalist hardware", isn't really going to change anything, etc).

Ciao,

-Jeff


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:02 pm 
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The same attitude is shared by anarchists at our local "anarchist" cafe. They would rather use Mac, and Windows, than linux. I guess it's too "difficult" for them (sorta like how it's too difficult to be vegan, or <insert>).


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:51 am 
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unfortunately living in freedom takes effort, no one wants to make an effort these days. It's why the US has gone down the crapper.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:07 pm 
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Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
jack_spratt wrote:
Hello people, I don't use blag, but I'm a fan of it.

I thought some of you may be interested/amused to see a little battle I've been having with some supposed 'anarchists' over at afed.org.uk. I figured they might like the idea of using free Linux, it seems I was wrong!:

http://libcom.org/forums/south-east-and ... ux-and-why

I hope you don't think I'm trespassing/over stepping my welcome here or anything, its just that I'm aware of the political aims behind blag (not very dissimilar to my own) and as I said, hoped that you might find reading the linked messages amusing!


A quick glimpse at libcom.org showed me the 'ed' is full of Sh1t.

His post here
http://libcom.org/news/general-strike-b ... l-10042007
is as inaccurate and biased as it can get. So that doesn't give me much incentive to venture further into the site.

For the record:

1. there wasnt't a "General Strike". A general strike is one where the worker's unions confederation (CGT) declares it so. What was there was a strike by all TEACHERS UNIONS. Plus, the other unions did 1-hour strikes (banks, subways, etc) at lunch time.

2. Yes, the strike by teachers was massive. Yes, there were rallies. Massive ones.

3. The teacher was killed in a province miles from the capital.
http://www.mapcrow.info/cgi-bin/cities_ ... 87083%2C01

4. The province where the teacher was killed is ruled bya RIGHT WING governor. The kind which thinks that a "balance budget" is more important that teachers' ability to afford a decent life with their wages.

5. The NATIONAL GOVERNMENT has NOTHING to do with the killing. In fact, the Education Secretary gave a RAISE to all national-level teachers recently. Since Argentina is a FEDERAL republic, it' s up to each PROVINCE to match up the funds if they want.

6. The NATIONAL GOVERNMENT offered funds to the provinces that couldn't match the pay rises recently offered at the national level. But NEUQUEN, -the province where the killing happened- DIDN' T REQUEST SUCH FEDERAL HELP. In fact, the province doesn't even need it, it' s got a fiscal surplus.

So, by reading the grossly distorted news story above at libcom.org, you would conclude that:
1. The federal government is to blame
2. The president will be affected by this
"The government of President Nestor Kirchner has so far kept quiet on the issue which seems to have struck a nerve in the Argentine population just months before the general election".

Nothing could be further from the truth. The president gave pay RISES to the teachers. The provincial government of Neuquen didn' t, and a strike by the local teachers union in Neuquen was called. They took it to the streets. The right-wing governor decided that the right to roam the streets by car traffic was more important than teachers' wages, and called for the police to "remove the teachers from the provincial route". The provincial police acted brutally as they often do, and one teacher was killed. End of story.

The president had nothing to do with it, it was a provincial matter!, mishandled by a right wing provincial governor which is a declared public enemy of the current left-leaning president.

So, there goes my credibility of the "Anarcho-communist" site in London...

In short: I wouldn't waste my time trying to educate them on the virtues of Linux, they seem pretty ignorant overall and happy about it...

FC


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:31 pm 
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Even the opening sentence: "Argentina was brought to a near standstill..." Apart from the fact that (some) schools were closed, the day went by totally normal for most people... I didn't go to the demonstrations and had I not read about them, I would not have even known there was a strike at all...


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:16 am 
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Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
jebba wrote:
Even the opening sentence: "Argentina was brought to a near standstill..." Apart from the fact that (some) schools were closed, the day went by totally normal for most people... I didn't go to the demonstrations and had I not read about them, I would not have even known there was a strike at all...


So, Jebba, it' s time for you to confess to the forum readers what you are doing down here... ;-)

A Movable Fiesta
Buenos Aires is the new Expat Haven
http://nymag.com/guides/changeyourlife/16047/

;-)

FC


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:27 am 
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fcassia wrote:
So, Jebba, it' s time for you to confess to the forum readers what you are doing down here... ;-)


I'm running a shell script. Isn't everyone?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:51 am 
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Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
jebba wrote:
fcassia wrote:
So, Jebba, it' s time for you to confess to the forum readers what you are doing down here... ;-)


I'm running a shell script. Isn't everyone?


I guess. :)

FC


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:56 pm 
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fcassia wrote:
THE TALK of the weekend down here was the opening of Google's regional HQ in Buenos Aires city.


Funny, i didn't hear it mentioned once...

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38946

-Jeff


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:18 pm 
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I think my draft said "...on IT circles".

http://news.google.com.ar/news?hl=es&ne ... 1154204519

FC


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:20 am 
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I'm not trying to turn this into another free vs. open source debate, but I think the former is a lot better for anarchists; the phrase is never used by the evil corrupt all-powerful corporations. Plus, it gives a bit more of a 'lots of hackers working together' image than the almost buzz-wordy open source. The basics ideals of (free/open source/libre/whatever) software is definitely anarchistic (Everybody having control of their own computer, for one), whether the freedom is a means to an end or an end in itself.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:20 pm 
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what a disapointment - libcom looked pretty cool up to that point, and now the lack of objectivity with regards the Argentine teachers strike story puts alot of what else they report into doubt.

Not only that but the response to jack spratts honest efforts to educate are puzzling. If you already consider yourself incredibly computer literate and having had weighed up the pro's and con's of a FOSS system fair enough, why try and find fault with someone just trying to raise awareness for people that maby are not as well versed in IT?

The whole thing about computer games really got me annoyed for some strange reason, im mean, whatever happened to reading a book? Engaging in a debate? Learning to build or repair things for yourself and your community?
Im no saint - i rent my property, i still buy tobacco - but i couldn't find time to play compute games even if i wanted, theres just to many more interesting things to be doing.
Plus my girlfriend would never allow it :|


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:45 pm 
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Okay.

1) Anybody who responds to the idea of using Linux by suggesting they won't be able to play their games aren't Anarchists... most likely just some punk idiots.

2) A good percentage of Anarchists are primitivists; thus the idea of advocating any form of technology will be absurd... how these people face the inherent contradiction of believing in this and posting on a forum is hard to fathom.

3) People who care about politics are often, unfortunately, emotional. If you tell such people that they are doing something, especially something they are addicted to, that is wrong then they are going respond with childish attacks or ridicule.

4) You are using the term Linux. Linux is a broad term that doesn't have anything to do with freedom – Linus Torvalds is essentially apolitical. So when people bring up IBM or Dell or something using Linux; this is true. As it's true that the most popular Linux distro is funded by Mark Shuttleworth, who feels it's a proper use of 20 million dollars to fund his own venture into space. Thus many anarchists, or leftists in general, may view the use of Linux as in no way different than the use Mac OS or Windows. There is only a difference if one uses a completely free system... which the vast majority of Linux distros aren't... they are open source! So, you see, the problem is terminology.

Personally I am an Anarchist which is the main reason why I'm switching to free software... I view it as essentially Anarchism in action and I believe many serious Anarchists agree with this. My apologies that the folks at libcom don't.


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