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 Post subject: the 3d linux myth
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:05 pm
Posts: 286
ok, this is mostly for those seeking installing nvidia drivers. (or rather why you should not)

1) Forget about playing games in linux - the process stinks and is not meant for gamers. Most "linux native" or "linux compatible" games are 2d or based on ages old q3 engine, so yes they suck. Well maybe they are good for children but even at this i doubt as children tend to choose eye candy which is not what linux is about.

2) All the eye candy - desktop effects, beryl & etc are slow as hell & as buggy as windows vista. Personally I wouldn't feel right submitting all of them as bugs, since there is little reason to get those fixed, i'm certain there are more important problems to work on.

3) All visual (color, brightness, saturation & etc) enhancements that you can actually see do not make any real difference unless you have sniper eyes.

So all in all this was for you to ask yourself a question - do i REALLY need nvidia drivers?

:)

PS this is in no way meant to bring blag, linux or anyone or anything else down (not even nvidia), but rather to tell you simple naked truth, for you to make up your mind before finding yourself messing around with unsupported "slaveware"...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:24 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:03 pm
Posts: 163
yeah, buddy!!

if i could quit doing this "messing around with unsupported "slaveware"

i'd probably think i was pretty good at linux stuff!!

actually,
only thing i have on any of 3 machines is flashplayer, but i feel that's legal.
isn't it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:36 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 6:08 pm
Posts: 973
Location: Canada
Here's a rebuttal.

The nvidia drivers offer a number of important features that cannot be found in the free nv driver aside from 3d acceleration, including:
- XvMC acceleration for video playback
- solid multi monitor support, including support for TVs (s-video, composite AND component, interlacing, overscan settings, etc.)
- power management support for laptop GPUs. this is critical, because otherwise the GPU will run at full speed and burn through batteries.
- numerous other features commonly used in laptops such as buttons to enable external displays, brightness control, acpi support, etc.

The list goes on and on.

Finally, I disagree about the comment on linux gaming. I regularly play a large number of non-native games in linux, mostly through emulators like zsnes and sdlmame. Most emulators use opengl for scaling, which isn't offered by the open source nv drivers.

You also attack 2D games, which I disagree entirely with -- there are a very large number of fun 2D games out there. Good graphics alone do not make a game fun.

I agree completely about beryl and the desktop effects, they're slow and look ugly, cause X to crash far too often and are generally useless.

I don't get the part about the "visual enhancements". Contrast, brightness and saturation are usually adjusted at the monitor level. If you mean the digital vibrance and image sharpening effects, those effects are incredibly annoying and I don't know a single person who doesn't abhor them.

Fortunately, the nouveau drivers will soon be able to do all of what the nvidia drivers do aside from play demanding 3d games.

You can help by supplying renouveau dumps if you use the nvidia drivers.
See here: http://people.freedesktop.org/~jpakkane/ren/

So, if you don't need 3d support, don't play games and don't want the desktop effects (they're awful anyways), don't have an nvidia card in your laptop, don't need multi monitor/tv out support or any of the other features of the proprietary nvidia drivers, which most people do not need, stick with the open source drivers. While that list may seem long, most linux users really don't need many of the items on that list.

Stephen Clement

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E-mail me at s.clement@localhost (replace localhost with sympatico.ca) or stevo32@localhost (replace localhost with blagblagblag.org).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:24 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 1:42 am
Posts: 13
My 3D game addiction keeps me from using BLAG or any other free operating system. I'm sick all the time, and I find 3D games "suck me in" enough to be able to ignore how I feel. I wish there was a good free 3D driver for my nVidia card. I tried to conprehend that Renouvo thing but it makes no sense to me.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:05 pm
Posts: 286
node357 wrote:
My 3D game addiction keeps me from using BLAG or any other free operating system.


that is what dual boot is for, and this is the only reason why i still have 1 instance of windblowz out of all of my puters, rest run - blag, slackware, ubuntu and backtrack.

node357 wrote:
I wish there was a good free 3D driver for my nVidia card.


you missed the point, driver - free or not is NOT an issue - all popular games require directx, which means whenever you want it or not redmond tards made sure you can not escape their shitty technologies for decades to come.

Yes there are successful emulators BUT configuring anything to run in their environment is a pain (xo xo xo wine this lol). Automatically configurable emule's like cedega cost money. Open GL is long dead in gaming. Lack of SLI/Xfire support in linux pretty much stalls any possible future developments of games :( Last but not the least, I don't know to many game developers who would choose to develop cross platform games as this significantly increases the timing it takes to complete the project as well as costs. And then there is xbox, sony & the rest of proprietary brady bunge family which explicitly forbid game developers to port/develop games for other platforms if you sign a distribution contract with them. bottom line is linux gaming is soo far away from where windows games already are that it would take some dramatic change in technology to shift the balance. Lets wait and see whenever new generation of gpu's will do the trick ;)

http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/21/2134239 wrote:
...both these companies recognize this, and are producing next-generation CPU/GPUs that are hybridized to have the kind of abilities where the CPU and GPU could, theoretically, produce real-time ray-traced worlds with highly realistic physics and environmental interactions all happening in tandem on the CPU. They're definitely building chips that could have that capability.
We're in a very interesting transition period. We're at the end of the game industry, and a major era in the game industry. This is the end of an ice age. Don't know what's coming after this…gonna be something new. We're seeing the end of what came before. The end of 3D graphics as we knew it, we're at the end of PC and console gaming as we knew it, it's gonna be something new from here on out.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:16 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:15 am
Posts: 125
Location: Western Australia
groove, there are linux installers for a number of popular windows titles, such as Doom, Unreal Tournament series, and numerous others. Simple list here for example: http://www.liflg.org/?catid=6

I enjoy my Unreal Tournament, it helps me unwind. No DirectX needed.

Just thought I'd point out not all games are reliant upon DirectX


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:05 pm
Posts: 286
i don't understand why would you run UT in custom installer as UT2003 as far as i recall works in linux more or less with a native installer (my 6cd copy does that i think, i've played that on 30k or maybe even ubuntu which i used before that).

but in any case - those games are old, i remember playing ut2003 but that was a whiiiiiileeeee ago, current is UT3 and that has no opengl, opengl is dead pretty much :( and there is no way in hell UT3 will run as smooth in linux as it does on windows for the number of features linux lacks i pointed out earlier.
but ok, even for open gl, as far as i recall opengl fps was always lower then directx so you will definitely experience this especially with fps where literally every frame counts, at least thats what my eyes tell me when playing.

of course the fault of it all is largely due to proprietary directx, so it has little to do with linux. just shows you how well an entire industry can be screwed with monopolies.

like even .net framework is nothing else than indirect way of establishing monopoly - by getting the most profitable developers in the market, utilizing programmers that are trained in "one microsoft way" - this breeds generations and generations of ms client base, as well as ms oriented development. yeah sure ms is far from the only one, sun tried the same with java, but to think that any corp out there is going to care about the product while their main goal is making money is foolish, so it is much like any other commercial company - dollars is what matters to them, thats the essence of any capitalist system - all the other stuff like ethics, morals or perhaps responsibility - they don't exist in the world of numbers. much unfortunately all of this junk directly inhibits development of gaming in linux.

all of those emulators & etc are really a drag on linux, they are only the means of backwards compatibility, backwards being the key word.
that is why i said that new technology is linux's only ticket into the future as far as gaming is concerned - because as long as linux takes the lead and windows can NOT do what linux does, linux will win. As long as the race is started by windoblowz, linux will always be 3rd best in gaming, because even consoles [i hate consoles btw] will take 2nd place in front of linux untill linux gets the first place which it rightfully deserves.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:47 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:17 pm
Posts: 4492
Location: Loveland, Colorado, USA
There are games, such as urbanterror (based on UT?), in the blag repository and I believe they are free. It seems to work well enough with an ATI card I have (nothing fancy) running a Free driver. Granted, you may be able to get higher FPS with some other card/setup, but do you really need the absolute fastest? The best skaters don't need the fanciest skates. ;)

There are tons of free games in the blag repository alone... Just stop playing the non-free ones. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:42 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 6:08 pm
Posts: 973
Location: Canada
bzflag is another open source option too ;)

Quote:
Lack of SLI/Xfire support in linux pretty much stalls any possible future developments of games


nvidia's linux drivers support SLI. SLI has never been important to most gamers, because the performance benefits simply aren't large enough.

As for DirectX, wine's DirectX emulation is solid at the moment. It's everything else that they need to get working on. DirectX does not currently present much of an issue to linux users.

As for OpenGL and Sony, the PS3 uses OpenGL internally, so that should increase the number of game engines with OpenGL support.

Quote:
untill linux gets the first place which it rightfully deserves.


I don't see why it deserves to have a bunch of proprietary games run on top of it.

Quote:
like even .net framework is nothing else than indirect way of establishing monopoly


That's what mono is for!

Quote:
which explicitly forbid game developers to port/develop games for other platforms if you sign a distribution contract with them


Sort of. They'll lower the price if you go exclusive with them, but most developers find it cheaper to develop cross-platform and take the increased profits that come from making your game available to a wider audience.

_________________
E-mail me at s.clement@localhost (replace localhost with sympatico.ca) or stevo32@localhost (replace localhost with blagblagblag.org).


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