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jebba
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:07 am    Post subject: Fedora Reply with quote

Wow. There's a huge thread in fedora-devel started by Alexandre Oliva about linux-libre and such. I've written a few messages in there. I usually try to stay out of that crap, but I fell in this time.

Fedora's website says shit like:

knowing liars wrote:
We try to always do the right thing, and provide only free and open source software.


when they *KNOW* they distribute plenty of non-free software and even have a special interest group dedicated to it!

Anyway, I also learned that their "logic" for distributing firmware is they say it's "content" not "software". Ya, it's just code put through a compiler spit out into a binary and distributed--clearly "not software".

Massive flamewar begins here:

http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-June/msg00411.html

-Jeff

Saint of Killers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never did comprehend how so much non-free stuff appeared to be in the kernel. I was of the understanding that such stuff was not allowed near the kernel in the 1st place. If stuff needs to be added, and people choose to do so, fine, but why the kernel? It should be able to be loaded into user-space, or other areas surely?
jebba
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saint of Killers wrote:
I never did comprehend how so much non-free stuff appeared to be in the kernel. I was of the understanding that such stuff was not allowed near the kernel in the 1st place. If stuff needs to be added, and people choose to do so, fine, but why the kernel? It should be able to be loaded into user-space, or other areas surely?


I didn't realize it for a long time either (like a decade).

dmwm2 is actually working on trying to get the firmware out of the kernel and use a firmwareloader() mechanism that all firmware passing thru the kernel would use. This would make it easier to do a free kernel (well, despite what lxoliva says!), but the rationale is that *it would make it easier for companies to distribute firmware*. So basically it (might) make building a free kernel/distro easier, but it is also a means to encourage more firmware! doh.

Hans de Goede is trying to argue that firmware is hardware on fedora-devel. heh.

-Jeff

noldrin
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People like to ignore problems. But if you shine enough light on them, then often times they will fix them
Saint of Killers
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Firmware is hardware"? What kind of retards does he think everyone else is? It's nothing of the kind. It may be a different layer, but it still exists as software.

I've never claimed to be the smartest person on the planet, but some of the arguements I was reading from your link just make me wonder as to the actual intelligence of the folk working on this stuff. They're either willfully ignorant, or dumb as bat-shit when it comes to this stuff. I had to keep checking I wasn't on some satire site. Madness.

noldrin
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot the exact word to describe it, but when you have put a lot of stock in one view point and someone shows the obvious fallacy in it, people will do all sorts of absurd rationalizations in order to try and argue an emotional viewpoint.
uninverted
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

noldrin wrote:
I forgot the exact word to describe it, but when you have put a lot of stock in one view point and someone shows the obvious fallacy in it, people will do all sorts of absurd rationalizations in order to try and argue an emotional viewpoint.


Religion?

noldrin
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

actually the term I was looking for was confirmation bias
caramel1982
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

which is better? fedora or centOS?
john maclean
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on what you want to do or achieve.

CentOS
- Based on Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL)
- Long term support
- Very stable
- Very conservative

Fedora
- Testing ground for RHEL
- Active/rapid development cycle. I.e Cutting edge


_________________
BLAG 'em up!
col54red
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

john maclean wrote:
Depends on what you want to do or achieve.

CentOS
- Based on Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL)
- Long term support
- Very stable
- Very conservative

Fedora
- Testing ground for RHEL
- Active/rapid development cycle. I.e Cutting edge


thanks for your explanation john.

sagitter
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Wow. There's a huge thread in fedora-devel started by Alexandre Oliva about linux-libre and such. I've written a few messages in there. I usually try to stay out of that crap, but I fell in this time.

Fedora's website says shit like:

knowing liars wrote:
We try to always do the right thing, and provide only free and open source software.


when they *KNOW* they distribute plenty of non-free software and even have a special interest group dedicated to it!

Anyway, I also learned that their "logic" for distributing firmware is they say it's "content" not "software". Ya, it's just code put through a compiler spit out into a binary and distributed--clearly "not software".

Massive flamewar begins here:
...l

-Jeff


Hello to everyone.
This is the reason because i've just decided to move my attention to Blag Linux (other than Fedora).
I love free software but today the Linux Kernel without no-open-firmware use is complicated.

patrickm
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

john maclean wrote:
Depends on what you want to do or achieve.

CentOS
- Based on Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL)
- Long term support
- Very stable
- Very conservative

Fedora
- Testing ground for RHEL
- Active/rapid development cycle. I.e Cutting edge


If you want to use CentOS because of the long term support and stability, you could consider using Scientific Linux. SL is created from the same sources as CentOS but a little less strict on being 100% binary identical to RHEL. The people who created it (working with Fermilab and CERN) are surprisingly friendly ;-)

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