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 Post subject: Ward Churchill
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:06 pm 
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If you've been following the news in the US, you may have heard about University of Colorado professor Ward Churchill. He's currently being lynched for his writings.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=u ... earch+News

It's quite a rant he's written. If interested, you can see his actual essay in my blog:
http://jebba.blagblagblag.org/index.php?p=149


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:19 pm 
I don't agree with Mr. Churchill's analogies and his premise in general. When it comes to numbers and statistics, I don't agree with either side since numbers and statistics can be distorted or slanted to make them what we want them to be. While any death is tragic, I can't agree that deliberate killing of innocent civilians is the same as the accidental death of the same group. I also believe that the death of innocent people for any reason is not justifiable by anyone. I don't support Mr. Churchill's views but I do not agree that those views should be censored by anyone. His right to free speech is no less important than mine and I defend anyone's right to speak their mind as long as it does not cause physical harm.

hoppy72
Altoona, Pa.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:27 am 
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Who accidentally died?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:52 am 
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He has a very powerful way of writing things. The problem is from the off his writing looks too biased. I will read it over again tomorrow slowly to try to see between what I think are overbearing rants working against his relevant points.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:47 am 
It's definitely an emotional rant and not an argument. Rants always interest me because i think they are much more authentic--instead of trying to hunt around finding obscure references to back up their points, ranters just state emphatically what they believe.

Areas where he may be wrong (e.g. did US forces intentionally infect Native Americans with small pox in 18xx) are no more off than today's "news" (e.g. did S.H. have WMD...).

Naturally, he's going to be torn apart, not because his facts are off, but because he's directly challenging "conventional" wisdom.

Fodder for the corporate media... Interesting, nonetheless.

Something more serious, imho, is the jailing of the /lawyer/ for a criminal (arab "terrorist") suspect. She's being jailed for something like /20 years/. More info:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/10/natio ... rtcnd.html

-Jeff


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:06 pm 
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From the other end of the spectrum, you could look at http://www.anncoulter.org/ to counter his rant. I find the most convincing arguments especially on the internet where wording is key are those who use facts and objective reasoning to get their point across. Ward Churchill's rant was so far left that anyone neutral or right will instantly dismiss it. So the only people he ends up reaching are those already on side though I can imagine a few of the smarter leftie's frowning at his rant.

It is just though yet another reason to debate on the net. I can recall a more at home topic being the whole Linux vs Windows. Ward Chruchill appears to be the equivalent of the guy who sat there saying "Windows sucks. Linux rules." without actually knowing why he said it. The point may be correct but it totally undid everything his Linux peers had put across in a mature " Why Linux is better" matter.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:11 pm 
Jason wrote:
From the other end of the spectrum, you could look at http://www.anncoulter.org/ to counter his rant. I find the most convincing arguments especially on the internet where wording is key are those who use facts and objective reasoning to get their point across. Ward Churchill's rant was so far left that anyone neutral or right will instantly dismiss it. So the only people he ends up reaching are those already on side though I can imagine a few of the smarter leftie's frowning at his rant.

It is just though yet another reason to debate on the net. I can recall a more at home topic being the whole Linux vs Windows. Ward Chruchill appears to be the equivalent of the guy who sat there saying "Windows sucks. Linux rules." without actually knowing why he said it. The point may be correct but it totally undid everything his Linux peers had put across in a mature " Why Linux is better" matter.


How could you not be a partisan shill if you ever took Ann Coulter seriously?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:10 am 
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I take neither Ann Coulter nor Ward Churchill seriously. The point was they are both extremists and for every left there is a right. Fact is neither extremist or indeed their loyalists over the world will ever be taken seriously while they remain so condescending.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:31 am 
Jason wrote:
I take neither Ann Coulter nor Ward Churchill seriously. The point was they are both extremists and for every left there is a right. Fact is neither extremist or indeed their loyalists over the world will ever be taken seriously while they remain so condescending.


I hadn't heard of this Ward Churchill before reading the blog. While some of his views & the images he uses are a little bit strong i certainly wouldn't call him an extremist with regard to this essay. In fact it reflects quite well the opinion of the big majority of europeans, even more now that the 'war(s) on terror(petrol)' doesn't seem to have an end. Probably we're all extremists here... I particularly liked the passage in which the US are brought to international justice for it's war crimes :lol:

What you take for condescendance might merely be a mix of lost illusions :roll: & rage :twisted:... Something like what parents feel when they see their promising child misbehave, become arrogant and destructive. Something like what Europe feels for it's offspring now.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:25 pm 
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Nah it i s not just one essay. Just a long back and forth game of cat and mouse. Tis ok though I will focus on things that interest me more :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:53 pm 
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It is cat and mouse. It's heard when you turn on the TV or radio to any channel.
If I lived in another country, watched US television news shows, based my impressions of US citizens on that, I would think the US is full of idiots.
I would think they base their lives on money, sex and violence.
I have heard of both of these people but they truly do not have any impact on my pocketbook. In fact, if they came to my door I would smack them. Especially if they knocked while I am having sex.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 2:39 am 
I live in the US and think it's full of idiots!

HaHa :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 3:01 am 
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I think it is wrong to generalise an entire nation. I know no fewer than thirty or so Americans and a far higher pecentage of those are smart compared to the British people I know and that is coming from a British person.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 4:17 pm 
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Anonymous wrote:
It's definitely an emotional rant and not an argument. Rants always interest me because i think they are much more authentic--instead of trying to hunt around finding obscure references to back up their points, ranters just state emphatically what they believe.
-Jeff


Seems funny, an emotional rant and not an argument!!!!, yeah right I can assure you that emotional rants can be very valid arguments, you just need to see a bit more than just words


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 10:42 pm 
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An emotional rant is about trying to get your point heard. Arguing or debating is about trying to make the other side see things your way or perhaps meet in the middle with a compromise. I think more often than not there is a clear cut line between the two though some clever writing can disguise this.


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