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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:10 pm 
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My fellow people of the United States of America.

Just as the people of Germany were held responsible for all of the torture that happened, so shall you ! If you allow yourselves to be afraid of standing up and saying we do not accept this kind of treatment. We do not accept you mr. president of redefining torture. Then you will have the blood on your hands.

You think by not paying attention that you will be safe ? You are wrong !
As others in the past have come to know, you will be affected. And you will weep. You will wish to have done something, anything, but it will then be too late.

The questions of should we or did they are now over, and those who support the blood fueled hatred that now is enslaving you and I will be over in due time.

Because you have been dumbed down to accept double-speak, you will still be held accountable. Ignorance of the law is no excuse in our court-rooms as you will come to know.

These people in power are war criminals and I will support those who oppose war criminals, as you should.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:49 pm 
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Please have a look at the "Iraqi al Qaeda Torture Manual"

Aside from waterboarding, &c., some of what is being referred to as 'torture' in the press consists of such things as toilets at Gitmo that face Mecca, scented soap and such. People like Omar Khadr--the rotten little bastard that Alexandre Trudeau and other misguided fools are trying to spring from Guantanamo--are really, really bad people. Recently, a 13 year-old Iraqi girl turned herself in: she'd been wearing a suicide bomb that some terrorist cell or other had strapped to her. These are the people we're fighting--murderous, mysogynistic, homophobic (mano a mano is 'haram', but pederasty is 'halal'), anti-semitic fanatics who will not rest until the world is part of the greater ultra-orthopractic sharia-following salafi/Wahhabi umma.

Also bear in mind that the current crop of anti-Bush Hollywood propaganda (Michael Moore et al.)is the work of the media-industrial complex of the U.S., who are still fuming that people voted against their bought-'n'-paid Democrats (the Gore ticket, the Kerry ticket) [/i]twice. Recall that is was the Clinton regime that wanted to ban non-backdoor decryption and censor the internet... The anti-Bush sniping has more to do with how the radio spectrum is allocated and what kind of anti file-sharing laws are passed than the war in Iraq. Beware, also, of anti-war types like Noam Chomsky. During the hight of the Khmer Rouge, Chomsky flat out denied reports from refugees of atrocities, chalking it up to CIA propaganda. Chomsky has yet to apologize for this.

BTW, though I think that Saddam Hussein was one of the worst mass-murderers in the post-WWII era (just ask a Kurd), his removal was basically a sop to the Saudis (they lived in fear of an aggressive, secular, Ba'athist regime in the neighborhood). People should, however, go piss on Ronald Regan's tomb, since he helped empower bin Laden and his murderous mujaheddin man-boy lovers in Afghanistan. Also, why aren't their any "no blood for oil!" protests against Russia? Putin (another boy lover--must be a commonality in the profile :0) pulverized Chechenya over oil and fabricated a terrorist threat (when Aleksandr' Litvinenko spilled the beans, he got a Polonium surprise); now he's doing the same thing in Georgia (creating enough of a security issue that the Azerbaijan-Georgia-Turkey oil pipeline'll never be built, so Europeans'll be forever dependent on Gazprom for fuel).

Cheers,
ACS


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:19 am 
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Location: Loveland, Colorado, USA
ACS wrote:
Please have a look at the "Iraqi al Qaeda Torture Manual"

Aside from waterboarding, &c., some of what is being referred to as 'torture' in the press consists of such things as toilets at Gitmo that face Mecca, scented soap and such.


The United States government has set the record for: "longest known detention in solitary confinement". This was of a US citizen too, by the way. You're trying to play down what they are doing and that will not fly around here. Get real.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:10 am 
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Quote:
You're trying to play down what they are doing and that will not fly around here. Get real.


I'm certainly not downplaying some of the nasty things that the U.S. (and Canadian, British, &c.) governments have done...the internment of people of Italian, Ukrainian, Japanese ancestry comes to mind. The Republican party (to reiterate, especially the late Ronald Regan) have done treasonous things, too, vis a vis coddling the house of Saud. However, I just can't find it in my heart to be sorry for people like Osama bin Laden and his kindred souls, who dream of killing (or converting) all the 'other white meat' (their term=pork) like me. Really, I'm sorry for the victims of Islamic terrorism...and the victims of the Russian 'oiligarchy' in Chechenya and Georgia. Oh, and the PRC's government is more anti-Islam than anybody--just ask Husein Celil.

When Pakistan goes Taliban (the secular coalition is falling apart there), we'll have a really big problem. The nuances of whether-or-not pouring water over someone's face costitutes torture will be moot, once the nukes start to go off. A book you might want to take a look at is Mark Steyn's "America Alone". While some of the author's positions are questionable (he downplays overpopulation as a crisis), it's a different, frightening perspective.

Cheers,
Adam


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:49 am 
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Just leave.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:14 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:33 am
Posts: 240
Location: Great Lakes
Quote:
Please have a look at the "Iraqi al Qaeda Torture Manual"


So.....their torture methods are worse than ours? As long as our methods are less severe than Al-Qaeda, they are OK with you?

The USA's use of torture should be exactly zero. We look quite silly to the rest of the world as we proclaim our President to be the "Leader of the Free World". Then we turn around and tell the entire planet, here are the rules you need to live by, and here are the rules we'll use. The hypocrisy of the United States is plainly obvious to about 5.9 billion of the planets population.

Besides, if you believe torture produces useful information, then perhaps John McCain gave the North Vietnamese useful information. Maybe he cracked. Maybe that's why we lost the war. Who knows what vital information they tortured out of him. I mean, you do believe it works, right?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:34 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:38 pm
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Location: Athol, Massachusetts, USA
ACS wrote:
I'm certainly not downplaying some of the nasty things that the U.S. (and Canadian, British, &c.) governments have done...the internment of people of Italian, Ukrainian, Japanese ancestry comes to mind. The Republican party (to reiterate, especially the late Ronald Regan) have done treasonous things, too, vis a vis coddling the house of Saud. However, I just can't find it in my heart to be sorry for people like Osama bin Laden and his kindred souls, who dream of killing (or converting) all the 'other white meat' (their term=pork) like me. Really, I'm sorry for the victims of Islamic terrorism...and the victims of the Russian 'oiligarchy' in Chechenya and Georgia. Oh, and the PRC's government is more anti-Islam than anybody--just ask Husein Celil.



Please, one false premise at a time...

So you feel sorry for the victims of Islamic terrorism, which would include the Russians killed in terrorist attacks by Chechnyan seperatists, who are predominantly muslim. And you feel sorry for the Chechnyans who are victims of Russian aggression. I agree. I feel bad for everyone who is the victim of terror.

One note, the use of torture (or "aggressive interrogation") has never been an effective means of getting intelligence. Torture has always been a means of evoking terror in the population, which is why the U.S. government uses those techniques in Afghanistan and Iraq. It's terrorism, and like all kinds of terrorism the usual victims are innocent.

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Ed LaBonte


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