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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:45 am 
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http://www.nvu.com/index.html

That I have been told is a really sexy WYSIWYG standards compliant editor for Linux and it is Open Source.

Steve, as a fellow standards fan, have you given it a go?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:08 am 
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It's built off the Mozilla Suite's Composer. I've been bugging jebba to add this for a while so he can finally ditch mozilla (y'know we've got lynx as an alternate browser if needed)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:09 pm 
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I gave it a whirl and it is sweet. I think Linux is way ahead now in terms of standards compliance. We got OpenOffice exporting as valid XHTML, amaya doing it's thing and now this. So from a web developers point of view, we could move away from the Mac because GIMP is now rather comparable to Photoshop on some levels.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:51 pm 
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Ya,I've checked out NVU. Looks pretty nice. Probably put in it the repository. Gotta find a src.rpm of it or see if it's in dag/freshrpms/etc.

bugzillla...


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:48 am 
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Ok I added it to Bugzilla.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:52 am 
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i think nvu is great, been using it for a while now and having no problems. I d/loaded the stock install of the site and it worked fine.

Its very easy to use so i think it could help new linux users very much


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:32 pm 
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I think it will just convert designers over in flocks. Anyone can who designed a standards compliant site and then tested it in IE will know what I mean. I think the general consensus is slowing moving towards standards compliant and now IE compliant. You can't use IE on Linux without a lot of trouble. So screw it. Any designer out there can only code to standards. If people don't want to use a decent browser, then tough. So NVU and Amaya are god sends.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:26 pm 
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As a web developer, I know exactly what you mean. My code passes the w3 validator, but renders horribly in IE, yet renders perfectly in Moz...i'm sick of it...

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:46 pm 
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IE7 from what I hear will follow standards. Whether that is true or not remains to be seen. The great thing though is the use of IE is just going to drop if they don't come into line with standards.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:45 pm 
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It's looking very good. But two problems with it...

It doesn't support stuff being relative to the server. In other words:

/images/whatever.jpg

It needs a site manage/cache like Dreamweaver.

Also it doesn't support server side includes which, ironically, are one of the most cross-browser compatible things, as the included items/pages are assembled on the server.

As for Amaya, I don't think it is a serious contender when it comes to creating professional-looking pages.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:47 pm 
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I guess it differs from designer to designer. Most who actually write their code will actually be fine with Amaya or NVU. Others may not be so well off using just those two.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:54 am 
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I've uploaded a blag 29k build of nvu to RPMS.extras. It will be available via apt-get in a few hours.

-Jeff


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:23 am 
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Sweet :)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:47 pm 
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Jason wrote:
I guess it differs from designer to designer. Most who actually write their code will actually be fine with Amaya or NVU. Others may not be so well off using just those two.


I can hand-write HTML very well, but it takes too long. The code made by Dreamweaver is identical to what I would write by hand and takes one tenth of the time. Most people seem to work the same way as me. They just dip into the code to hand-write a bit here and there.

People who 'dabble' and run a single page may be able to take their time... But I have one website which has 500 pages. It isn't practical :-)

Amaya is fine for experimenting but it is not a tool for making a professional-looking website in a reasonable amount of time. NVU is more promising, but has no site management tools. I change the name of a page in Dreamweaver and it updates all linking pages in a few seconds. In NVU that will take me several hours to do by hand.

If you can make image and page links relative to the server rather than the page they appear on, that lets you copy and paste a block of text from one page to another (or put it in an include) and you can be sure that all the images and links will still work.

Dreamweaver lets me see any Server Side Includes in the WYSIWYG editor. I have hundreds of pages that are assembled using SSI. In NVU I would end up editing text files. It just isn't going to happen.

Basically I'm looking for something on Linux that will replace Dreamweaver and apparently there isn't anything yet... :-)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:22 pm 
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RickUK wrote:
I can hand-write HTML very well, but it takes too long. The code made by Dreamweaver is identical to what I would write by hand and takes one tenth of the time. Most people seem to work the same way as me. They just dip into the code to hand-write a bit here and there.


I guess again it depends on the person. I typically have a structure on sites where the format is controlled by the stylesheets. XHTML 1.1 encourages the seperation of format and content. Most of the content is stored in a database. So we end up with xxx amount of pages all different controlled by CSS files. You could end up with a page looking like -

include header
call content from db
include footer

- and it can be that simple.

RickUK wrote:
People who 'dabble' and run a single page may be able to take their time... But I have one website which has 500 pages. It isn't practical :-)


It is practical except for totally static sites. For static sites, it is still possible using stylesheets for total formatting. For content this is different but then we aren't talking about content right now. For dynamically coded sites, modules take care of a lot of issues when changes are required globally.

RickUK wrote:
Amaya is fine for experimenting but it is not a tool for making a professional-looking website in a reasonable amount of time. NVU is more promising, but has no site management tools. I change the name of a page in Dreamweaver and it updates all linking pages in a few seconds. In NVU that will take me several hours to do by hand.


I would disagree with the time constraints but that is just my opinion and I totally respect your opinion and approach to your profession. The way I code my sites I never have to go through and change all pages since careful planning is part of any large project.

RickUK wrote:
If you can make image and page links relative to the server rather than the page they appear on, that lets you copy and paste a block of text from one page to another (or put it in an include) and you can be sure that all the images and links will still work.


Yes that is true. Includes depend on the language though and not the editor you used to write them.

RickUK wrote:
Dreamweaver lets me see any Server Side Includes in the WYSIWYG editor. I have hundreds of pages that are assembled using SSI. In NVU I would end up editing text files. It just isn't going to happen.


Ok well whatever floats your boat as the saying goes. I prefer my way and you prefer yours. The one thing I do like about Dreamweaver is the ability to open tons of pages and edit any one at any time. I can do this in Bluefish.

RickUK wrote:
Basically I'm looking for something on Linux that will replace Dreamweaver and apparently there isn't anything yet... :-)


I personally dislike Dreamweaver but this is similar - http://quanta.sourceforge.net/ It is Open Source and released under the GPL too. If you want, give it a try and if it's any good let us know. I would be really interested in your opinion on it because as a non-Dreamweaver fan I can't really be unbiased in it's comparisons to Dreamweaver.

Thanks for your post.


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